shindows updates 3 / discussion thread

sup ppl. the current updates have been posted. right now we're in beta to see how i like things. i might be tweakin stuff for the next 7 days. after that, what's set will be set basically til the next shindows updates. the entire site has been restructured. some pages are gone, almost all have been edited someway. it's up to the members to get accustomed to the new rules and regs. right now there's no list of what's been updated but i'll be running a promo to help ppl see what's changed. i'll look over any questions bout the update here for the next 2 weeks. after that, everyone should've adapted.

The new graphics are certainly growing on me. Kudos with that; I look forwards to seeing what type of background the forums will be getting. The black seems a bit lonely. I'll have to look at the techniques that I have to make sure they're no fun surprises in battle, but it looks like you were able to address some of the improvements we've been needing. Who knew you actually did stuff? Psi will be pleased with your hard work.

Present Realm Jobs » Crime » Problem solver

Problem Solver is put twice... just thought i should tell you :/

@ kyro - silence whore
@ kitehighinthesky - thx! this is helpful, i'll make that correction!

so.. soullines are now transformations, that can have modes inside of them that last longer than the transformation?

So do we get our exp, texp, and time back for shit that got changed that we don't want anymore?

@ ash - kinda
@ rek - send those requests to admin rev

rekoa wrote:

.... Oh you get the ideal overall nothing in magic changed it still sucks your sta and does shitty dmg for what it cost unless it is an aoe with now takes longer to cast. and some of those cost more now.

Over view of update nothing was really fixed. Soul lines and Taints feel like that they should be the other way around. Melee, Melee weapons, and beast melee got little bit better but drains still suck for "Ω" skills but higher cost in sta does make it wroth putting it as your Aff and a person can do lvl 9 dmg on there own now. Guns got Weapon Proficiency which is good if it isn't your Aff but pointless if it is (doen't think I would pay 22,000 exp to lower my sta cost by 1). Defense is even better then it was Movement got the ugly stick a little. (no more evade tanking). Site looks goods. Cool new areas to play in heaven isn't the suck anymore. Some really good and changes to items.

I suppose I'll weigh in on this. "Big Magic" and Omega Techs are supposed to be draining b/c nothing else can deal the level and range of damage as a magic attack or omega tech can. Single target magic doesn't take long to channel, but it's a simple fact that channeling magic attacks does in fact take longer than throwing a punch or firing your gun. Also, if Omega techs had no/little drain, what would stop someone from using Godspeed nonstop as I've seen people do in the past?

The strategic element was introduced b/c when we look at most fights anyone with lightning or demonic arts seem far too quick to just blast off Scream of the Lyteflies or Dark Skies with no real strategy or anything behind it except this is my affinity so I can deal Destructive damage for like 17 of my 200 Stamina. The stamina drain for magic isn't that bad if you know how to plan out your attacks. The strategic element pushes people to set up for their big attacks... like Goku! You don't have to charge for three episodes, but people are no longer gonna be throwing 15 Super Kamehamehas one after another at the beginning of a fight.

I STILL disapprove of the whole one person doing more than Destructive+ dmg. Anything over Dest+ should be CTL only.

I don't see why Soullines were turned into transformations. They were supposed to be something that is always active and always on once you unlocked them b/c they are innate. Mukhya is supposed to be able to choose to be Kunashi or not otherwise, it's a taint and not a soulline.

What is Dex? Well it's similar to static agility. Dex gauges how quickly you can move your limbs say to punch, kick, or grapple. If someone doesn't use Dex in their RPs, that is their fault, but in a saga if they wonder why a normal human can't seem to land a punch on a Spirit, that would be why.

Also, Clouddash increases your JUMPING Movement, not all movement. That should be noted so it'll give you a boost when you leap into flight or try to jump from building to building. Not if you're running or even flying forward.

I'll actually be doing a full review as requested after I finish dealing with personal matters offline for the coming weekend. I definitely like the layout though, Chief.

The level of damage a Fierce+ / Omega Tech is capable of, in my humble opinion, is vastly lacking for these stamina costs. Even with an affinity, that 17 stamina to inflict that 50 damage will be greatly reduced against characters possessing strong attributes. With the introduction to spirit / human hybrids, even humans can ascend to strong attributes. With the improved defence package, that pretty much puts everybody’s defence to Supreme. Suddenly, that 10 second charged, draining magix technique isn’t so appealing. This might simply encourage the spamming of one’s affinity, especially because “this is my affinity.” Otherwise, you’ll be drained before you’ll be able to even get their attention with your attacks.

Pertaining to the actual damage of magic attacks... (The attacks that require the 10 second long kamehameha charge and a lot of stamina cost)
A lot of people, I've seen, have a strong attributes, or at least average. Normally, this means a destructive is doing either 50 damage, or 75. (Out of the 200 people can achieve)
Defense was buffed, it'd seem. So, that's +2 defense when dealing with, let's say it's MToughness. Thus, magic attacks.
In the case that someone has strong attributes, that means they'd be taking 10 damage from a destructive. You know, the 10 second charge move mingled with incantation and epic channelling. In the case that their attributes are average and they have perfected MToughness, they're taking 25 damage from a destructive level magic attack.
I fear for the damage anything lower than destructive level attacks will inflict...

Just wanted to throw that out there...

That's what I was trying to get at. Spells below destructive don't seem to be viable, especially now. Dragonball Z was referenced. Dragonball Z is filled with physical onslaughts and then a finishing energy blast. It's kind of the other way around here, where physical (weaponry) attacks reign supreme. The stamina costs are low and the damage can match (if not surpass) magixal damage.

I shouldn't be complaining. I was planning on using Beast Melee. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

I actually agree that it is overly hard to damage people without RPing a critical hit. The problem is the fact that you can't really shift the attributes. You start with the "lowest creature":

Normal Human/Base Yokai = Weak
Hito/Normal Spirit = Average
Transformed Spirit/Heightened Possession = Strong

The only real solution would be bitched against HEAVILY:
Humans (all) = Weak attributes
- Hitos gain access to Lv 3 magic and Omega attacks
- Possessed (Vaspires, Expirs, and Wolyfs) can be bumped to Average stats

Spirits = Average attributes
- Yokai still start Weak
- Adv Yokai bump to Average
- Kami/Oni have static Average stats
- Elders (Pillars/ShinPC Spirits) are Strong
* Kami/Onihume Trans can restore 5 HP/Sta per turn since it wouldn't bump stats anymore.

That would effectively make Fierce and Destructive more damaging. Also, it would prevent a race to submit the strongest Destructive+ abilities so that you can damage someone.

Now, also, the one thing that isn't affected is CTLs, the combo attacks. If you think about it, most of the fights in anime against the people that are a bish to kill are generally two or 3 against one. Even if I have Strong stats + MToughness and someone launches a combo'd Fierce+Fierce that equals +4 against me, which I think is 100% damage.

Also, my personal opinion is that people let too much BS fly in the RPs. You are allowed to claim full Defense if you are actively blocking or something. If someone gets caught slipping, unless I recall wrong, that's full damage. Too many people, from what I used to see, just accept whatever BS "oh I turn at the last second to deflect the attack b/c you posted that it's this painful attack" and just keep going to avoid an argument with the other person.

The physical techs are another topic of debate between Shin and I b/c I've generally felt that they were too strong, but the argument is the fact that a magic attack can be RPed to still hit if it's block b/c if I use Drowingcycle or Rayzors on you it surrounds you and attacks, so you'll block the front attack, but your back is still gonna get cut up or w/e. If people RPed the techs as they are written instead of just Strong attack vs Strong defense, I think the techs would be a lot more effective. Now by taking that logic, Lyteflies and Dark Skies and the other destructive AOEs become A LOT stronger when you consider Dark Skies that is a multi-attack. The smaller bolts will weaken the targets' defenses which will open them to the massive bolt, but no one calls BS when someone "tough mans" it thru the whole thing.

If anyone has a better solution than my wishful hoping that people will use things like tech descriptions to RP techs the way they are meant to be used, then please share b/c Shin doesn't like half of my ideas. ^_^

I agree and actually wouldn't mind those changes. Though, I suppose a tweak to the defense package's two techniques to grant what they did before (just +1) might work well enough for now. It was nice to see that noted, though. Using Toughness/Mtoughness requires a defensive action, something you shouldn't be able to throw up when taking an unexpected punch during something like a trade off.

The changes to stats would definitely cause some angry people on forum. I feel as though a change like that would make the difference between what is a boss, and what is an RPC. I agree with, actually, all that was said. I too wasn't aware that defence pack requires a defencive action dedicated towards the purpose of things like MToughness and Toughness taking effect.

o3o I actually think it would inspire more balance in the case of RPC vs RPC, and make necessity teamwork when it comes to RPC(s) vs ShinPCs. There'd be a lot of people DPSing the boss, people keeping other people alive when they're hit, and even defence package users defending peoples, making it almost like an MMORPG scenario, which I kinda like. xD

Hmmm...for additional ideas, I don't have too much to input, really besides what me and Tsu have already mentioned. The strong attributes from the freshly added soul line (The Spirt'y iirc), if a change like this were to be made, I can see them being taken down to around average stats. (If not people would definitely whore that out xP) I wonder what other people think on the matter?

Yeah, the way it should go tbh would be like:

Round 1:
Kaz and Shin spot each on the battlefield and engage in insults and jeering.

Round 2:
Kaz dances around.
- Shin listens and responds while charging his spell/power.

Round 3:
Kaz lunges to attack with his sword.
- Shin blasts him with Fireball (single-target spell).
* Kaz already in the midst of his attack is unable to defend in time and gets blasted by the Fireball.

An alternative would be Shin using an AOE spell so even if I block from the front, I could be hit in the back and receive damage that way. My back is completely unguarded, so I'd take heavier damage.

The damage is either take the full attack or you take (Attack Dmg - 1/2Defense). Either way it's not Fierce - Strong. I can't remember if Shin rounds up or down, but it would be Fierce - Average (rounds up) or Fierce - Weak (rounds down) giving +2 or +3 DMG.

@Blue: Yeah, the MMO concept is something I think Shin has really been trying to get so that more than 1 or 2 characters are actually support or more than just a couple true ranged or tanks. The issue is that I believe the only Destructive abilities were all AOEs and most people forget that if you're in a building in the Present Realm and you use Dark Skies, you'll probably destroy the building and surrounding area or that Lyteflies could cause residual explosions from an electrical overload in nearby machinery or power lines or cars. The packages with the destructive attacks are the ones frequently obtained.

Anywho, work is over now... ciao!

Oh, is that how it works? Scratch what I said about tweaking those techs in the defence package then. Lol.

nyce! these discussions are good! better for me to get the opinions of RPers about the system they're using. a lil correction w/psi guy. natural guard is def/2. breakdown!

Guarding
* Performed when you willfully brace yourself for an attack (i.e. crossing your arms, etc).
* This enables your Defense attribute to fully buffer an attack.
* If you do not guard, then only 1/2 of your Defense will buffer damage (rounding up).
* Guarding also helps prevent critical hits.

and those two def. techs aren't passive, so they're active. what u said was right on the money and they have a weak sta drain when you use em. about the godspeed thing... xD it's a raped tech kinda like time freeze used t'be.

@ rekdoggy: i appreciate all opinions. they help me calibrate things. every member's input is important to me. i wanted to read back over what u said but... chea >.>
edit: my bad, nvm. that was from another thread! xD I found it!

I agree with kaz no most of his post..

A lot of people have those big techniques, but we rarely use them because of that. The point of some battles is to take care of things.. discretely. If you are a spirit inside the metro and you drop a large technique like that, chances are the division is going to be up your ass within the hour.

lol@you talking about descreteness and not usin big techs

I use descreteness, thats what my soulline is for. Suppression before violence.

Says the guy who blew up the Geisha House.

good point....